Click on read more to see the full transcript from the Sections and Tools chat transcript on May 1, 2008.
[2008.05.01] CafePress Chat Room
BrittaCP: Hey everyone... thanks for joining Befreo we begin... i must go overe the chat rules.This is a moderated chat.that means that any question or comment that you submit, will be sent to a queue a moderator will will review it, and then push the comment out.so if you do not see your comment right away, that is why ok... let's get the show on the road
AngelaCP: We want this chat to be productive and answer any questions you may have about the section limits announcement .so i know you guys have a lot of questoins, so why don't we just get started on answering your questions.we see a few already and will do our best to answer everyone's
Karen: Will you be limiting the amount of free shops an account can have?
AngelaCP: There are currently no plans to do this
Michigal: Question: Do you have any idea whatsoever when a tool will be available to either move a section from store to store, or copy and paste a section from store to store? "soon" isn't a good enough answer btw, I'm still waiting for the new dog products that were coming soon.
MartyCP: We're working on a few different methods to deal with section limitations, but we didn't want to delay the release of the bulk tools anymore. I'm hoping to have a solution by the end of May.
refinish69-Doing My Part For The...: does 500 sections include subsections also
AngelaCP: it does
Tshirt d'Art (Casey): When will the emails arrive informing us of our grandfathered limit?
BrittaCP: The emails have all been sent out. if you haven't received one, and you think you should... contact your top shop rep.
FJS: Can we have empty sections to use for redirect that don't count in the 500 limit?
The Shadow: let me ask this, if someone can create 2000 free shops, how is that less intensive that somone have 1000 sections?
MartyCP: The problems all have to do with a single shop being too big. Lots of reasonably sized shops isn't a problem.
AngelaCP: Sections are counted as sections, even if they are empty
[2008.05.01 18:59:48] Welcome to the CafePress Chat Room
[2008.05.01 18:59:48] cat1 has entered the room "CafePress Chat Room"
Brad Neil: Will this increase the site speed (searches, page loads, etc.) for the customers?
AngelaCP: It will make the experience more consistant for both buyers and shopkeepers
babelfish: are there going to be discounts for additional premium stores considering some of the issues some people will have?
MartyCP: In some cases we may offer discounts, but I think limits are just a part of any service's evolution. We've also grandfathered people in with higher amounts, so they can continue to run their existing shops without breaking them up.
Mydeas: Since shops were previously unlimited and we were paying. Does our cost go down since we now can not put up as many designs in a shop??
JustinCP: There is no plan to change the $6.95/mo Premium Shop fee due to the shop limits.
ne1512BLVD: I have noticed that a lot of people (new and old) just really do not understand how this affects them. Is there a way to create a special page for people like Jen and Teesed to post their helpful tools and tutorials, as well as a F.A.Q about how to integrate multiple shops without the customer knowing?
Towal: is there a list/explination of what exactly the bulk tools are and how they will help us?
AngelaCP: We do have a list and explanation of the new tools here: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/community/smart_shop_update043008
BrittaCP: Ne, we like this idea. Ang and I will think something up
Karen: Will there be CP tools to tie together a group of premium shops so that it appears as a mall type shop rather than just one isolated niche shop?
MartyCP: We're working on several ways to deal with the problem of having run into the section limit. If we find that the only way to deal with the problem is creating more premium shops, then we'll definitely look into automated shop cross-linking.
Sag: Was there no other solution possible other than the section limits?
MartyCP: It really was the obvious solution at this point. We thought about other things, but they were much more destructive, and thus not options at all.
Britta Cp:yes they are counted into your total amount
Kate: Marty, is there any reason why you couldn't create a 'super section' type entity that is essentially another shop, but acts like a section?
MartyCP: That's be a much more advanced (and time/resource-consuming) solution. We've talked about something like that, but I think at that point we'd really just move into the other conversations we've been having, like rearchitecting everything. ;)
mousecrafter: Are the section limits to discourage shops from having large numbers of designs that have only minor variations, such as sections devoted to large numbers of individual names or numbers on a single basic design.
MartyCP: That's not the primary reason, but it is a benefit. I'm hoping we'll evolve to handle "variation" designs much better than we do right now.
Suzzie: are the "grandfathered in" shops going to eventually be subject to more fees because their shops are bigger?
MartyCP: I doubt it. I'd expect that grandfathering section limits would allow you to maintain that level without a fee increase. (Things may be different when we roll out a more detailed tiered offering, though.)
JustMe: Will bulk product deletions break google lor affiliate links?
MartyCP: Oh, of course, just as they always have
JustMe: Oh, great!
shopa: why is the limit set so low? i have several shops and none of them is a problem until they are over 2000 sections - why not 1000 section limit??
MartyCP: Fewer than 0.1% of shops have more than 400 sections. Honestly, 500 really isn't that low.
AngelaCP: JustMe and everyone. It seems everyone is concerned about breaking links for affiliates. Most affiliates link to the MP. For those that might link directly to your products and sections, instead of deleting, why not just update the image? Also, with the grandfathered limits you should be able to continue to run your business for a while without having to evaluate old sections.
Mydeas: Can we request extra space or will we have to pay extra for more space?
Karen: When we reach our upper limit will there be a way to increase it another 500 sections, say for a fee? Or do we have to open another separate premium?
Suffering from Section Deficit: is the limit etched in stone or are you looking for ways to raise it
JustinCP: It's in everyone's best interest to provide you all of the shelf space you need to maximize your sales (short of "spamming" the marketplace). If you can add an additional 500 sections and generate an additional 500 sales/month from it, we want you to do so -- and we don't want a nominal fee to be the obstacle that separates you from success.
JustinCP: Therefore it's unlikely that most users will ever encounter a situation where we would accept payment for more space; rather, we'll prefer to review and adjust the shop limit regularly to guarantee most users never come close to the limit.
JustinCP: (phew -- spent a few minutes typing that one up :>)
The Shadow: rearchitecting is a major pain but sometimes a good move for the future though. I remember when my day job switched programming languages... our with all the old code
AngelaCP: Change is hard sometimes...
LoveJML: Can you give us some examples of the alternatives that didn't work, so we know what efforts have been made?
MartyCP: Uh...deleting all large shops that aren't profitable to us (which is most large shops, as it turns out); locking any shop that reaches a certain threshold from future management; removing all bulk functionality from the site; that's a few. We didn't think shopkeepers would like any of those, and we didn't either.
hd: If CP is working on new tools/services that *grandfathered* shops won't be able to use [because they're too large] [because I can't figure out if it's ok to keep stuffing *grandfathered* shop or I better create a new one]
JustinCP: As you saw with the Fall '07 revision to Storewide Price Change tool, and continuing with next week's release, all next-generation bulk tools are designed to work with large shops. We now regularly test large shops against all new enhancements. I wouldn't expect your big grandaddy shop to encounter size-related performance problems on the new stuff.
Towal: another question: one of my shops (which has been grandfathered in btw) is based on names. I am not through the alphabet yet and am at 500 sections. How do you expect us to reasonably be able to provide a smooth shopping experience when we are forced to split a shop into 2-3 or more shops to get everything in? will there be a way to link them seamlessly?
MartyCP: I can't answer that yet -- it's what we're thinking about right now.
Towal: you mean the storewide price changes that I have to get up at like 4am to be able to use?
JustinCP: Yes -- like that, but without the 4AM part. None of the tools on the roadmap (including the ones coming out next week) are time-restricted. We will be reviewing the time restriction on the price change tool Real Soon Now.
refinish69-Doing My Part For The...: when do the bulk tools go live?
BrittaCP: next week
Michigal: Most large shops are not profitable??!...really??
MartyCP: Yes, really. I won't explain in further detail here (I'd get torched internally), but yes, most big stores are actually unprofitable for us.
The Shadow: wow... I am off to delete then ;)
efinish69-Doing My Part For The...: they have too many designs that just sit there...I have quite a few myself LOL
FJS: Can CP maybe create a new bonus that we can earn a premium shop each time we reach tiers 20% and 22% for a month? So we could earn up to 24 new shops a year? To help us grow our big stores. Kind of cushion the blow a bit. I'm figuring I'll need about 40 stores to do what I need to do so it would help to be able to earn a few to help in that.
MartyCP: 40 shops? My god, what on earth requires 20,000 sections? There's only 10,000 words commonly used in the English language!
ne1512BLVD: I am excited about the delete tool. I would really like to delete several items from one shops and it would be so time consuming with over 600 sections in that shop. So, if I can just go delete all yellow shirts, then cool!
PamelaC: I've already been doing some pruning in my shop
MartyCP: Sigh. Anyway, I'll bring that topic up.
Michigal: yayy on the no having to change prices at 4 am! ty for that!
peon: A popular solution to tie shops together (in the message boards) has been third party scripts like CPshop. But, I've heard that these scripts also ave a hard time handling very large shops. Is that accurate?
MartyCP: I don't want to hawk cpshop too much here, but it does require some special handling once you get beyond 50,000 products in an install. It really depends on the webhost.
Dooni Designs: will the new copy tool work across shops in an account or will it just be usable in one shop at a time?
BrittaCP: One shop at a time
Kewlkids: Marty, Care to explain what you are thinking about when you sey 'foll out a more detailed tiered offering'? Is there somthing up your sleeves for the future?
MartyCP: Just not ready to go into further detail yet, sorry. I'll share when we're ready, but this just isn't the time.
Mydeas: Will we get an email or something when we hit our section limit?
AngelaCP: When you hit the section limit, the "add section" button will be temporarily disabled. You can also look at the section count to see where you're at. There's a screen shot of that here: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/community/smart_shop_update043008
The Sectionator: Should we prepare for a rocky road when you roll out the tools next week?
AngelaCP: We dont' think so. We're pretty confident... and you guys will like the new tools. Much more productive and will make shop managing that much easier. :)
RowdyJRT: My email said that I have over 900 sections, yet when I do a bulk price change it says updating 254 sections. Is there a bug in the bulk pricing or could it be any section we deleted in the past still resides on the CP server?
MartyCP: The 254 number is right, the 900+ number is wrong. 900 is the number (a calculation based on usage) that was used to determine your grandfathered limit number. I think the wrong current number got sent in the email, though the grandfathered amount is right.
Bob100: This tiered offering sounds scary like it might be a big disruption to our shops.
MartyCP: That's so not the case. It should ultimately be exciting, since it'll be the jumping-off point for us to check a lot of those requests off "the list."
Suffering from Section Deficit: I thank all of you at CP for sharing and taking the time to explain changes. You could just do like Bill Gates and say " here is Vista, good luck"
Live Bold German T Shirts: Please...what is profitable for CP in earnings for a large shop?
brainlint: Ooooh...is there actually a copy of 'the list' hanging on a wall somewhere?;)
MartyCP: Yes we do! Or rather, yes there is! :)
BrittaCP: yup... Shopkeepers helped us write it at CPconnect
Lekker Jen: What if you aren't a top shop keeper?
AngelaCP: Jen, if someone with more than 400 sections did not receive the email, and not a top SK, they can contact Brian at blu@cafepress.com. Be sure to put Section Limit in the subject line.
JustMe: Why would anyone with a large un-profitable shop keep adding designs/sections? The word bored comes to mind.
AngelaCP: That's a very good question...
cowpie: Shoot, I do it all the time...lol.
Sag: What about an auto personalization tool for shops?
MartyCP: Yes! That's exactly one of the things we want. (And it's on my short list.)
Michigal: Did JustinCP just say that depending on how well a shops sales are, they might review shops and give more sections over what they are grandfathered in at? Did I read that wrong?
JustinCP: Michigal: I was referring to the process of reviewing the limit and raising it for everyone once the data shows that average users can make productive use of more sections.
Sag: I'm sorry, but to think automated shop cross-linking is not a must at this time is unrealistic. It definitely is a need for the community.
MartyCP: Perhaps; but if we needed to hold off on all new tools for another month?
I'd rather get something out there. Shopkeepers have waited too long for new tools already.
Suzzie: Why was this action taken now and not years ago?
JustinCP: Suzzie: because (as you'll notice with next week's release) we're getting serious about improving shopkeeper productivity this year.
ne1512BLVD: What is profitable to CP may not be the same as what is profitable tothat person. CP may feel profitable is making thousands upon thousands. But, that shopkeepers may feel okay about their $200 a month and just be trying to get to that thousand profit
[2008.05.01 19:52:16] Michigal: Did JustinCP just say that depending on how well a shops sales are, they might review shops and give more sections over what they are grandfathered in at? Did I read that wrong?
[2008.05.01 19:52:16] JustinCP: Michigal: I was referring to the process of reviewing the limit and raising it for everyone once the data shows that average users can make productive use of more sections.
JustinCP: Suzzie: because (as you'll notice with next week's release) we're getting serious about improving shopkeeper productivity this year.
ne1512BLVD: What is profitable to CP may not be the same as what is profitable tothat person. CP may feel profitable is making thousands upon thousands. But, that shopkeepers may feel okay about their $200 a month and just be trying to get to that thousand profit
ne1512BLVD: Is this a permanent solution or is it a bandaid?
MartyCP: I think we're always going to have some kind of limit; what the limit is, and how easy it is to increase -- those things I'm hoping to address shortly.
RowdyJRT: A bulk delete of designs/products that hasn't sold in a specified time would be wonderful :)
ne1512BLVD: Rowdy, it might be better to not delete your sections and products though. It is better to recycle them with new designs and still benefit from the links!
JustMe: It seems to mec A non-profitable large shop should REPLACE designs within sections instead of adding more sections. Not doing this only adds to the problem.
JustMe: It seems to me that going into tiered pricing would defeat one of the major purposes behind section limitation...to stop the spamming.
MartyCP: I think we need a more advanced solution to marketplace spam than just section limitations.
Sag: I'm on a roll MartyCP :-D - What about pagination?
MartyCP: Shops need an overhaul in general. Pagination is just one part of that.
The Shadow: pagination would be great!
Sag: Amen MartyCP on the MP solutions for serious problems there!:bow:
The Shadow: keep spam where it belongs...in a can!
refinish69-Doing My Part For The...: what is pagination?
Karen: That sure would cut down on sub section usage
ne1512BLVD: I like the idea of the categories script better. But I do not use it, because it is not automated. I would prefer a CP catergories script that is automatic in your whole store. Pagination is okay too I gues.
Sophie Bleu: I'd love to have a report that I could click on to see which sections haven't sold anything in "x" days/months/etc. (sorry - am trying to catch up on previous posts here, so I'm likely a tad behind in subject matter)
AngelaCP: good suggestion...
teresa: when are the new tools suposed to be ready?
AngelaCP: next week we'll announce again :)
BrittaCP: Ok so we are out of time here. Looks like we got through most of the questions that came in. We apologize if we missed yours, many were repeats or we couldn't answer at this moment. We hope we were able some of the major questions on your mind. Please feel free to continue posting questions in the thread in Chit Chat.
BrittaCP: I will open up the lobby for you to continue chatting
Ophelia: I know people have been brainstorming about dealing with their own shops, but are there any recommendations CP has for planning things out in a typical large shop to get the least headaches and work the best within the system? (other than, you know, "don't open a large shop" ;) )
MartyCP: (she was gargling)
MartyCP: Make it design-centric, and try to focus on quality over quantity.
MartyCP: I'm out of time here -- I'm hoping we'll be able to push recommendations as we develop better ones (in a non-chat situation).
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